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 21 
 on: July 02, 2023, 06:39:06 pm 
Started by Peter Bristow - Last post by Peter Bristow
Firstly, thank you both for your responses and especially ‘neromoto’ for the attachments to his replies.

Secondly – and to my considerable embarrassment – I have to admit that I mis-described the problem in my original posting, due to writing from memory. I had thought it was just the temperature control slider that was the issue, but, having had the car out for a run to check what Theo suggested, it now appears that the problem goes beyond that.

So, while the slider is definitely stuck solid towards the ‘cold’ end of its range of movement (see attached photo), I can now report that the air distribution controls are not working either. While it is possible to depress any of the ‘A/E’ ‘RISC’ and ‘SBR’ buttons this makes no difference to the actual air distribution – air is coming out of the screen demister vents only. On the upside, depressing ‘Stop’ has the proper effect of shutting off all airflow, albeit that the slider control stays stuck when it should move to the extreme left of its range.

The German language information covering the Heating and Ventilation System provided by ‘neromoto’ sent me to the English language version of the Concise Workshop Manual (CWM) at pp. 59-63 and so I now have a much better grasp of how the whole system works. In particular, I understand that the temperature control slider does not act to control the amount of hot engine coolant passing through the heater core, but rather to control the mixing of ambient temperature air and warm air, heated by passing over/through the heater core. So it is more accurately described as an air blender control.

I actually spent some considerable time looking at this section of the CWM, working out how the different system modes set out in the table on p. 60 mapped onto the diagram on p. 59. It was also very helpful to have ‘neromoto’s coloured versions of the individual system statuses. I’ll come back to those later.

The fact that I can only get air via the front windscreen demister vents regardless of which of the three air distribution option buttons is depressed indicates that Shutter C is stuck in position 2, where it blocks air from exiting via the cabin vents, forcing it up onto the windscreen instead. According to the CWM, that is the correct position for Shutter C when button ‘SBR’ is depressed. Shutter A should then be open in position 1, admitting outside air, while Shutter B should be in position 1, forcing all of that air to pass over/through the heater core before being direct onto the front windscreen by Shutter C in position 2.  All of these shutter positions should be controlled by the vacuum system. However, the air I am getting out of the windscreen vents appears not to be heated, but rather seems to be at ambient temperature. That is currently relatively warm, due to it being summer. This implies that Shutter B is actually in position 2 (or a position very near that), allowing the air admitted via Shutter A to bypass the heater core on its way to the demister vents.

Selecting ‘RISC’ should produce a different set-up. According to the CWM, Shutter A moves to position 1 so as to admit outside air, while shutter Shutter C also moves to its position 1, blocking the path to the demister vents and forcing the airflow towards the cabin vents. Both these actions are controlled by the vacuum system, but vacuum control of Shutter B ceases in favour of manual control via the temperature control slider, which is is connected to Shutter B by a sheathed cable. This allows Shutter B to be set in a variable position between its (vacuum controlled) positions 1 and 2. This is the air blender function in action, since this manual control allows the operator to control how much air passes over/through the heater core and how much is allowed to bypass it. The resulting blended air then passes into the cabin as directed by Shutter C.

However, ‘neromoto’ has added some handwritten annotations in his native German language to his coloured diagrams of the heating and ventilation system and I think these are saying that the system as shown in the diagrams is only valid for early cars, up to chassis no. 2785 (‘bis 2785 Chassis’). More specifically, on the diagram for the system in ‘SBR’ mode, I think he is saying that on subsequent cars there was a modification allowing manual control of the temperature of the air sent to the windscreen demisting vents. Here I refer particularly to his annotation ‘Altes System warm, neues System regulierbar’, which Google Translate renders into English as ‘Old system warm, new system adjustable’. This makes the modified system’s ‘SBR’ mode identical to ‘RSC’ mode in operation, save for the final direction of the air (to the windscreen rather than into the cabin). My Gamma berlina was built in 1978 with the chassis no. 5798, so, if I have interpreted the handwritten German annotations correctly, it would benefit from this modification.

In turn, this would explain why the air exiting the windscreen demister vents of my car (with the air distribution vacuum system seemingly stuck in ‘SBR’ mode) is not warmed air, as the CWM indicates it should be, but rather seems to be at summer-warm ambient temperature. With the temperature control slider ‘in play’ per the modification referenced above but seized in place towards the ‘cold’ end of its range of movement, the fresh air admitted via Shutter A is largely, (if not quite entirely), bypassing the heater core and therefore emerging from the windscreen vents still at ambient temperature, (or something very close to it).

Of course, all this speculation on my part doesn’t really get me any closer to a diagnosis of what has actually gone wrong. On the face of it, a seized temperature control slider cable shouldn’t affect the operation of the vacuum system other than the operation of that system on Shutter B, so why doesn’t depressing button ‘RISC’ sent air to the cabin vents (by causing Shutter C to move to its position 1)? To my mind this points towards issues with both the cable and the vacuum system.

On reflection, I think I shall be handing this problem over to my lucky mechanic! The car is already booked into the workshop for 17 July, for other matters needing attention. Meanwhile, I should be grateful;

1)   if ‘neromoto’ would please let me know whether or not I have understood his annotations correctly – and does the chassis number referenced refer to Gamma berlina models, not coupés?
2)   for any further suggestions as to what has gone wrong, now that I have given the correct full description of the fault; and
3)   for any information as to the physical location of the likely faulty parts and how to access them Presumably the dashboard cowl will need to come off?

I’ll feed this information to my mechanic, who I am sure will be very appreciative of it.

Thank you, PB.

 22 
 on: June 30, 2023, 02:47:30 am 
Started by Peter Bristow - Last post by neromoto
add

 23 
 on: June 29, 2023, 01:22:22 pm 
Started by Peter Bristow - Last post by neromoto
Sorry I only have the manual in German.
The lever is connected to the wire to B. It is controlled by a vacuum. Are there any air leaks?

 24 
 on: June 28, 2023, 09:30:35 pm 
Started by Peter Bristow - Last post by Theo
Make sure the push buttons are not in the off position as that locks the slider. Try pressing the RISC button and see if the lever unlocks.

Temperature is controlled by a flap which varies the amount of fresh air mixed with heated air through the matrix. There's also and on/off water valve in the engine compartment near the bulkhead controlled by vacuum.

 

 25 
 on: June 28, 2023, 07:41:20 pm 
Started by Peter Bristow - Last post by Peter Bristow
What the title says really - the temperature control slider or lever that sits just above the air distribution control buttons in the dashboard seems to have seized up. There is a tiny bit of movement, but essentially it is stuck and I certainly don't want to risk breaking something by trying to force it to move.

I've taken a look at the exploded diagram in the parts book in the hope that that might show what the visible slider knob is connected to 'behind the scenes', but sadly it was of zero use in that regard.

Could anyone explain the mechanism by which the slider lever works to control the temperature of the incoming air? Presumably it acts on a means of controlling the amount of hot engine coolant passing through the heater matrix, but it would be helpful to know just how it does this.

And has anyone experienced a similar stuck slider before and successfully fixed it? If so, how? (And how much of the dashboard was it necessary to take apart?!)

I don't think it matters much for this issue, but the car is a Gamma 2500 berlina, built in 1978.

All helpful comments gratefully appreciated. Thanks in advance!

 26 
 on: June 15, 2023, 05:07:02 pm 
Started by na_connolly - Last post by keri
Hi Noel did you get some injectors? i do have 4 from a car i broke up it was running 2 years ago but if you need them i can test the solenoids on them to see if they  operate and the numbers on them they are grey by the way but they would need new hoses, and possibly an ultrasonic clean
regards

 27 
 on: June 14, 2023, 03:23:44 am 
Started by na_connolly - Last post by neromoto
Lancia parts No. 82345474

This number appears to be the same as the Beta Coupe I.E. VX injector.
https://lancia.co.za/article/Beta/Beta+Coupe+I.E.+VX/In_and_Out/2345474.html

https://www.martinwillems-webshop.eu/us/injector-gamma.html

http://www.kakapart.com/parts/opel-90097248.html


 28 
 on: June 14, 2023, 01:35:28 am 
Started by na_connolly - Last post by Theo
Bosch 0 280 150 151

I'm sure that's not the same number as fitted to my Gamma but my car is not at home at the moment so I can't check.  I am fairly sure mine had 0 280 150 035 but looking up your number, I found that 'your' injector is listed for the Gamma and was also fitted to several BMWs and the Citroen CX. A search on eBay for Citroen CX injectors shows up several other Bosch numbers.

 29 
 on: June 13, 2023, 12:40:48 pm 
Started by na_connolly - Last post by neromoto
Bosch 0 280 150 151

 30 
 on: June 11, 2023, 08:18:21 pm 
Started by na_connolly - Last post by Theo
The Bosch 0280150035 injectors as fitted to the Lancia Gamma were also fitted to several Mercedes cars and even some Jaguars in the 80s. The exact Bosch number should be printed on the side of the injector so search by part number.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224566881418

But what's wrong with your existing injectors? A good Bosch Injection specialist can ultrasonically clean your injectors and repair most faults with them.


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